Rise of fascism ... again?

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Mary_greece_34
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Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by Mary_greece_34 »

OK I know that fascism never died and never will. There will always be people with poor literacy and education, lacking critical faculties who will try exerting physical and psychological violence, to impose a "clean" and "healthy" model of human society.
You may have heard that in recent years in my country, there is a significant rise of fascism. A lot of my fellow citizens are angry with the governments of the past and think they will punish politicians by voting the fascists.

I would like to know what is the situation in your country and how people face such phenomena.

There are legitimate political parties adjacent to fascism? If yes, supported by a lot of people?
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by ow »

E Mary, ja ti baš ne znam pisati engleski, al se nadam da će ti Google pomoći da si ovo prevedeš.

Da, i kod nas se može primjetiti porast fašizma iako je sada teško procjeniti koliko zapravo ljudi podržava krajnju desnicu.
Na zadnjim izborima je to bilo manje od 10% - ali kriza je učinila svoje i sada će to vjerojatno biti više.

Nedavno smo imali jedan homofobni referendum gdje je 65% ljudi glasalo da u Ustav uđe odredba kako je brak zajednica muškarca i žene.
Doduše, glasalo je manje od 38% građana, ali svejedno to pokazuje kako u Hrvatskoj ima ukupno oko 25% ljudi koji smatraju da homoseksualne zajednice ne treba legalizirati.

Kod nas je politička scena podijeljena na dvije velike stranke i ostale koji su marginalne.
Što se fašističkih stranaka tiče - imamo nekoliko malih stranaka koje podržavaju ustaški pokret (to su naši lokalni fašisti) ali genetralno naš narod je u stanju neke obamrlosti.
Na prosvjede dođe 10-15 ljudi (jučer je bio jedan baš desni pa ih je bilo 10-tak) a većina sukoba se odvija na Facebook-u :)
nedodirljiva wrote:ti mater kaj sam bedasta.. vec sam htela napisat kak me nervira kak nis ne kuzim procitat tu na blc.. a kad meni ono u profilu izabran albanski jezik.. bog te ubio.. koji sam ja bedak.. Image
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Mary_greece_34
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by Mary_greece_34 »

I understood very well the meaning of what you wrote and even found enough common ground in thinking and action in this matter. For many decades we rely on two political parties (a right and a socialist).The far-right party has always existed, but the vote for the 0.5% -1% of the population. This suddenly changed and no longer gets 7% -10%.

I believe that we are hypocrites and conservatives, we lack literacy in basic things and we think human rights are a luxury when it is something that does not concern us personally. With this in mind, a society can not prosper.

Often our politicians talk about the way things are in countries such as Sweden, Finland, etc. and how we try to implement these development models but do not invest in the education of society through various activities, through the schools and through viewing various issues through the media.

I believe that turning a blind eye towards the phenomenon of fascism because it is a way to control society. The divided societies is always easier to manipulate.
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by Jelena-E »

I think that the problem of fascism is a little bit deeper than educating people and hoping that it will never happen again.
In every society there is small percentage of people who think that way and those people proved through the history are the easiest to manipulate. They are first on the street when there is some mess to express their dissatisfaction. My question is why is their anger directed toward the different people but not toward government who in my opinion causes mess at first place?

It happened to be that I live in England now and here no matter how it looks from a side patterns are the same. Every now and than you here politicians making some statement like few days ago PM here said that it was the biggest mistake allowing Eastern Europeans to come and work in England especially Polish. So what happens, because in recent years huge number Polish people came in UK to work and situation in the country in those years regarding money issues became worst and I will remind that government has money to maintain many ridiculous wars all around the world but has no money to maintain social and health services it is very important to direct peoples anger toward common enemy. In this moment for instance the best is if those are eastern European immigrants which according to me leads in discrimination and racism.
In 90 in Serbia for instance while inflation was through the roof and people dint have money for basic things governments was doing again the same thing, uniting us against common enemy. So our enemies, I'm talking bout Serbia were, Slovenians, Croatians, Bosnians, Albanians then Americans than NATO and I don't know how many more, that resulted in explosion of nationalism in Balkans and I really don't know how many years will pass before people try to get rid of it.

The examples of that happening are through whole history.... But why we don't pay much more attention to it and learn through our own mistakes. Well because what we teach our children is what governments want our children to know. So we have every time new generation who needs to discover things on their own from the beginning, and while they do that through growing up making mistakes very often they end up supporting fascist organizations.
As long as there are classes among us and inequality fascism will always exist.
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Mary_greece_34
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by Mary_greece_34 »

Jelena-E wrote: My question is why is their anger directed toward the different people but not toward government who in my opinion causes mess at first place?
This is my question also. Some convince them that fighting against the current government, but in reality all the rage erupts in in their neighbor.Of course the issue is multifaceted and the causes are many. Let's see what happens in countries where the phenomenon is very limited and does not look like boiling volcano.
The examples of that happening are through whole history.... But why we don't pay much more attention to it and learn through our own mistakes. Well because what we teach our children is what governments want our children to know. So we have every time new generation who needs to discover things on their own from the beginning, and while they do that through growing up making mistakes very often they end up supporting fascist organizations.
As long as there are classes among us and inequality fascism will always exist.
On this occasion you write for young people who end up supporting fascism, I think that apart from the state which does not take measures against this phenomenon, plays a big role and the family. The values will give you parents and intimate friends, determine your thinking and your character.
It is no coincidence that most young people who have not received substantial attention from their family environment, in an attempt to join a group to feel that they belong somewhere, join groups engaged in violence and illegal acts.
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renata
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by renata »

prvo bih čestitala Mary greace što je otvorila ovu temu,
pretpostavljam da je tema otvorena ne da bi se malo razmjenilo mišljenje,već zbog toga
što je problem povampirenog fašizma postao ozbiljan strah u društvu,kako kod nas u
jugoistočnim zemljama Europe,tako i u drugim,ekonomskim razvijenim zemljama Europe.
Primjerice,tokom mog boravka u razvijenoj regiji Austrije 2008-me godine,nisam imala strah od
mržnje i otvorene neofašističke izobličenosti jako vidljive i opipljive u manjim,mladenačkim skupinama,
već od običnih srednjoklasnih građana,pa sam itekako uvidjela krhost i prividnost civilizirane maske.

dakle,moje je mišljenje,a i iskustvo da nije problem u vladama,jer vrlo dobro znamo što su vlade-
nego u ljudima-pa si postavljam(nebrojno puta)pitanje:što je to u nama,da tako olako pesnicom
prijetimo drugima,oduzimamo im osnovna,ljudska prava i otvaramo širom vrata zlu u svoja srca,domove,
prijateljstva-iako dobro znamo što je fašizam i što sa sobom nosi?!
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by ow »

Odgovor na sva tri pitanja (i od Mary, Jelene a i renate) je jedan - MANIPULACIJA!

Opće poznato je da ratovi donose najveću dobit.
Također je opće poznato da iza svakog rata stoji financijska korist koju netko od njega namjerava izvući.

Zadovoljne ljude je teško pokrenuti u rat. Zato se proizvode krize koje uvijek prati dugotrajna i sustavna medijska manipulacija tijekom koje ljudi prihvaćaju i stavove za koje inače u normalnim okolnostima nisu spremni.
Kada politika počne raspaljivati emocije građana da bi sakrila svoju neučinkovitost - njena krajnja namjera je uvijek provociranje sukoba
To je proces koji traje, al koji u konačnici proizvodi neosjetljivost ljudi za zločin i kršenje tuđih prava.

Iako - ovo što se danas događa u svijetu je očito posljedica nestanka ravnoteže koju je proizvela propast socijalizma 90-tih kada kapitalizam više nema potrebu da uljepšava svoje lice jer naprosto nema konkurenciju pa grabi sve što može i najbrže što može.
To rezultira povećanjem njihove gramzivosti i pogoršanjem uvjeta života većine stanovništva.
Pohlepni vlasnici kapitala potenciraju fašizam jer njima je sasvim svejedno da li ćemo se mi međusobno pobiti. Njima je stalo do naših resursa zahvaljujući kojima će od nas načiniti robove bez da sami za to ratuju.

Dobro je pogledati ovaj Grčki film - puno govori o tome što nam se svima dogodilo i koji je cilj:

nedodirljiva wrote:ti mater kaj sam bedasta.. vec sam htela napisat kak me nervira kak nis ne kuzim procitat tu na blc.. a kad meni ono u profilu izabran albanski jezik.. bog te ubio.. koji sam ja bedak.. Image
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renata
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by renata »

citat:"Zadovoljne ljude je teško pokrenuti u rat"
nezadovoljstvo je donekle razumljivo u ekonomskim slabijim zemljama Eu,
ali-ne razumijem zašto je fašizam tako objeručno prihvaćen u ekonomski jakim zemljama;
kao što su Austrija,Njemačka Italija-što sam imale prilike vidjeti i doživjeti,
to su sve odredom ljudi srednje klase,sa radnim mjestom,sa riješenim stambenim pitanjem,
sa svim blagodatima socijalno uređene zemlje??ono što me je prenerazilo što se otvoreni fašistički stavovi
iznose usred bijela dana,na javnim mjestima-a ne negdje skrivećki po zatvorenim,tajnim prostorijama.

i ne shvaćam,da ne kažem da me jako zabrinjava,tolika prihvaćenost fašističkih ideja kod
mladih osoba,što će mladim ljudima-rat?zar nije u njihovoj dobi prihvatljivija ljubav,tolerancija,
zar nisu mladi ljudi ti koji su uvijek tjerali društvo na progresivne ideje,jer su u njima prepoznali,
osjetili da to donosi bolje sutra svima?
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Jelena-E
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by Jelena-E »

To Mary: It doesn't necessarily mean that they lack values because family didn't teach them. Sometimes it can happen that you have nationalist right in front of yourself but instead of adopting bad values you search further and educate yourself and reject bad values and stay true to yourself. It is important for people to understand that life is not about finishing university and getting good job and having kids and taking your place In chain of generations but rather in elevating your level of existence in challenging yourself and growing...

I renata je postavila još jedno pitanje: " :što je to u nama,da tako olako pesnicom
prijetimo drugima,oduzimamo im osnovna,ljudska prava i otvaramo širom vrata zlu u svoja srca,domove,
prijateljstva-iako dobro znamo što je fašizam i što sa sobom nosi?!"
To sam se I sama često pitala I nije mi najajsnije šta je to što opravdava zločin? Jedino što mi pada na pamet je da bi odgovor mogao biti strah. Mislim niko od nas ne bi učinio nikakav zločin u normalnim uslovima ali u uslovima kad strahujemo za svoje najbliže mislim da se prosuđivanje iskrivi. I tu se slažem sa ow da se veštački raspiruje mržnja I strah I da je u osnovi svega manipulacija I pohlepa.
Sad je pitanje kako se izboriti sa time?
Ja već nekoliko dana ranije napisa negde da mislim da je svet u ideološkom procepu I stvarno ni sama ne znam da odgovorim na to pitanje. Da li bi sad trebalo smisliti neku novu ideologiju koja bi parirala kapitalizmu I napravila ravnotežu I kako zainteresovati ljude za tako nešto...
Ili jednostavno odustati od civilizacije I povratak prirodi.
Stvarno mislim intenzivno o tome već neko vreme ali...Stvarno ne znam....
Ako vi imate neku ideju... :scratch:
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Post by fireandice »

Ja bih prije rekla balkanizam.
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Re: Rise of fascism ... again?

Post by Mary_greece_34 »

Jelena-E wrote:To Mary: It doesn't necessarily mean that they lack values because family didn't teach them. Sometimes it can happen that you have nationalist right in front of yourself but instead of adopting bad values you search further and educate yourself and reject bad values and stay true to yourself. It is important for people to understand that life is not about finishing university and getting good job and having kids and taking your place In chain of generations but rather in elevating your level of existence in challenging yourself and growing...

Certainly it is not necessarily and exclusively on parenting. Just for that I mentioned in previous posts that the issue is multifaceted. It may be due to lack of self-criticism, self-awareness, a sense of justice and more. I think, however, that the basic background has to do with someone's received impulses.
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